As I mentioned in last week’s column, I wrote a rather angry letter to ModCloth after noticing that they carried a Parfait by Affinitas bra and neglected to offer the full size range, or any useful information about fit and size. Well they wrote me back. Here is what I wrote to them, followed by their response:
I’m really angered by the way you’ve presented this item on ModCloth. I own this particular bra, which is actually the “Charlotte” bra from Parfait by Affinitas. First off, you don’t offer the full size range. I wear a 30G (and yes, I have natural breasts), and in fact I write a column about small-waist big-bust fashion and lingerie. The Parfait by Affinitas line is specifically designed for this demographic, and yet you don’t offer any of the larger cup sizes (F and up) for 30, 32, or 34 bands. It’s things like this that contribute to not only the fact that the majority of American women wear the wrong size, but also make young women feel like freaks when they can’t fit into “normal” bra sizes. They ARE normal, but companies (like ModCloth) simply choose not to offer their sizes.
Furthermore, you state that the bra uses UK sizing, but don’t explain the difference between US and UK sizes. How are people supposed to pick out the correct size from that? Oh, right, you list a measuring chart—only it’s completely useless and incorrect. The bust measurement does not dictate your bra size. According to your chart, I’m a 36D AND a 36DD. Wrong. To find a bra size, one must measure the bust AND the underbust.
Further, 36 and 38 bands go from DD to F, but 40 goes DD to E to F. What happened to 36 and 38E? If I look at the “Additional Sizes” listing, 36 and 38 do have E. But your measuring chart here is totally different than the other item listing. Here, my measurement makes me a 36E, 36F, 36FF, and 36G all at the same time.
And lastly, you state that this bra fits true to size, but that’s not true. It’s common knowledge that Parfait by Affinitas bras run both a cup size and a band size small, as some of the reviews on ModCloth will attest to. So someone who normally wear a 32DD would actually need a 34DD (cup size is relative to band size, so a 32DD actually has the same cup volume as 34D. As such, 34DD is both one cup size and one band size higher than 32DD).
Of course, I can’t write any of this in a review on ModCloth, to help other shoppers choose the right size, because your company only allows reviews from people who’ve purchased the item directly from you.
The response:
Hi Leah,
Thank you for taking the time to write in to us! I can completely understand and appreciate your passion for representing and choosing a proper fitting bra. As I’m sure you understand, shopping online for a bra is a very challenging task, and while I can completely admit, that ModCloth is new to the lines of intimates, I am sure with continued experience, we will be able to offer our customers the utmost service in these lines.
Here at ModCloth, we like to offer our customers pretty items that just so happen trend on vintage designs. We try to provide our customers with as much information as possible, and if more is needed- we are more than happy to help them seek the answers they need.
I am very sorry that you were so offended by the way this product was described. If you have any other questions or concerns, please don’t hesitate to let me know.
Best Wishes,
Emily
Product Knowledge Lead
I think the “I am very sorry that you were so offended” is a bit of a sarcastic dig, but that just makes me laugh. I guess bras are kind of a trivial thing to get so worked up about in the grand scheme of things. It wouldn’t have even made me as mad if I were allowed to write a review so other shoppers would know what they’re getting into.
I do appreciate that ModCloth responds in such a timely manner, so a shopper could conceivably ask them questions about picking the right size. But I wonder if their sizing advice would be any good (probably not!). Anyone want to try it and report back?
It sounds like ModCloth is new to the lingerie game, and thus just don’t know any better. Maybe they’ll get better if more people write to them. Though from the looks of the complete “intimates” section, I doubt it. I realize that ModCloth shoots for mostly vintage looks, and the intimates choices reflect that, but quite a few of the bras they have listed come in Small, Medium, Large instead of band and cup sizes—and some of those are underwire! That is really confounding to me. Does the size reflect both the band and the cup? So the manufacturer assumes all women are the exact same proportions?
It’s just a nonsensical choice. Wouldn’t such a sizing scheme limit potential customers to a very narrow group? Or maybe they expect women to just buy the products anyways, and wear an ill-fitting garment simply because it (the garment itself, not the woman in the garment) looks pretty and vaguely vintage?
oh, wow, ugh! The dresses on modcloth are gorgeous but I normally steer very clear of anything in the intimates at these kind of stores because I know it’s just going to make my blood pressure rise. Hopefully, more customers will respond.
I ordered a swimsuit from ModCloth once, but my bust, waist and hips put me in three different sizes. I emailed them and got a prompt and helpful response as to what size I should order.
I think ModCloth does try to to a good job at helping customers with questions, but (like the majority of the US) has no idea as how to actually fit a bra.
I can understand why they only let customers who purchase items through their store leave reviews (in fact, that’s typical of most online stores). If anyone on the internet could leave a review on any product anywhere, you’d end up with a lot of spammy reviews at best, or a ton of negative reviews from the competition at worst.
JCPenny lets anyone review their products, mostly because they don’t have a system set up to verify that you bought the product. It doesn’t seem to have hurt them. As for Modcloth, we can only hope their revenue withers up and dies when people discover that there are better vintage stores out there that *gasp* design their own clothes and offer bras that have a clear, easy to understand size chart.
What shocks me most is that there is no reference to the biggest issue: not stocking all the sizes. I’d expect either a “oh, we didn’t know people would want those… we’ll think about stocking them” or a “unfortunately, we cannot stock those sizes at this time”… but no response at all? Wow.
Oh, apparently they added “additional sizes”… but why add it as another item? Why not just add the “additional sizes” to the original item page?
Goodness, I’m dense today. The “additional sizes” is not only pointlessly on another page, but is also a selection of large cup/large band sizes. So they are missing the small band/large cup sizes.
But making a separate page for “additional sizes” seems rather stigmatizing. It’s the same bra… it’s designed for large cups… why on earth are they presenting the larger cup sizes as “additional”? It’s not like they had to redesign the bra for big boobs.
I agree, I think it’s stigmatizing too. And, weirdly, most of the “additional” sizes are also listed on the regular listing. So I really don’t understand the purpose of the second listing at all, except to make women who wear a 36-40 band feel “other.”
I love Modcloth! I wish they labeled things differently as well, but they’re surprisingly chock full of good quality full bust friendly stuff at really reasonable prices. I’ve never even considered buying bras from them but I also tend to assume that any online clothing site (especially in the US) won’t know anything about bra fit/sizing anyway. Maybe that’s a really cynical approach though. I’d love to see them expand their bra sizes and selection, as well as get a clue about sizing, but I don’t think that they would see much return on their time/educational investment from their customer base. I’m honestly amazed they carry so much curve friendly clothing already!
Yeah, I think the education would be too much for them and I don’t think they would sell because so many people are so uninformed.
Just look at the information some reviewers give. They’ll say they wear a 34B and have a 27 inch waist, and they post a picture and they’re clearly at least an F cup. Most of them just don’t know.
They carry so many beautiful clothes though.
It sounded to me like a “form” letter response. Nothing was answered, and then the obligatory “I’m sorry” response. Those make me even more mad than the first issue, since it’s like a “I don’t care, but if I respond, even with just BS, that’s good”.
I have purchased from modcloth a number of times before and as i am a strange fit i always ask advice on what size to go for. i often get told a different size but they always fit quite well (and this is a big issue for me as i have to pay international postage). i presume they actually check sizing and the such because they offer me different sizes depending on the item.
To people that leave comments saying that its wrong that u cant comment if u dont buy, well how do you know what the product is like if u havent purchased it from them? Im just a bit confused?
I also think that sometimes certain sizes may not be ordered in certain items if they dont believe they will sell enough. i dont think they do it offensively. I often shop online and due to the fact that i have big hips and a small waist and bust i often dont find clothes to fit (this happens in most stores as well). Its not they are purposely not ordering a size or make that would fit me, its just not necessary as i am not a common shape. im also not a really little girl so im not saying this to be mean to people that are a different size to me.
And also if the bras are offered elsewhere, why is it so terrible that they dont offer every size on modcloth? its the responsibility of the individual to get fitted and seek the correct size bra, not not the company.
My problem with the comment policy is that I do own that exact item. Since almost all of their items can be purchased elsewhere (under the garment’s actual brand name), it’s entirely conceivable that someone could own the item without purchasing it directly from ModCloth.
The thing is, an hourglass figure (small waist with big boobs and hips) is not an uncommon shape at all. It’s just not “fashionable.” This is exactly what I was getting at with my letter to them. Even though this body shape may be common, clothing manufacturers, for various reasons, only design for a less shapely body. And then you get women and girls thinking “No clothes fit me right, so I must not be normal.” It’s really pernicious.
Plus, a dress or shirt does not have the same requirements that a bra does. You can always throw a belt around a too-big dress to make it fit your shape. But a bra is a lot more difficult to fit correctly and can create back problems and other extremely uncomfortable results if a woman is wearing the wrong size. So if ModCloth is going to offer real bras (as opposed to the wire-free small, medium, large options that make up most of their inventory), then I think they DO have a responsibility to offer useful sizing information, AND I think it’s ridiculous and short-sighted for them to just assume there are no women with small waists and large breasts shopping with them. If Affinitas knows there’s a market for those sizes, what logic is ModCloth using to come to the opposite conclusion? Affinitas is an American company, so it’s not just some cultural difference between the US and UK. Also, every time I read reviews of ModCloth dresses, I see numerous women saying they have a big chest, and commenting on the fit of the garment in that area. So ModCloth obvously DOES have customers who are that shape. And furthermore, ModCloth’s theme is basically vintage looks (largely from the 40s, 50s, and 60s), as they themselves noted in their response to my letter. Well the shape that was fashionable in the 40s and 50s was hourglass.
Lastly, your average ModCloth shopper doesn’t KNOW the bra is sold elsewhere because ModCloth does not list the item’s brand or real name. They give everything proprietary names (as I mentioned in the post), so there is no way for a shopper to know they can find it elsewhere and seek out another size.
Phew. Hope this didn’t sound too aggressive, but the more I think about it, the more fired up I get. It’s not like I’m calling for a boycott of the store or anything, but it’s something I wish more people would complain to them about, as that’s the only way ModCloth (or any retailer) will ever expand their offerings.
I’m not an hour glass shape, i said i had small bust and waist and large hips, im not sure where the hour glass comment came into what i said?
I own vintage style underwear as well but i am limited because im not an hourglass shape?
Can you please explain why your argument revolves around the hourglass figure when my comment had nothing to do with it?
Oh sorry, I misread your first comment. I thought it said large bust and hips and small waist. That’s where the hourglass mention came in.
In any case, I don’t think a small bust and waist with large hips are unusual either. That’s my mother’s body shape as well as a number of my friends. I think my point about hourglass shapes also fits your body type. The fact of the matter is that it’s not unusual, it’s just not “fashionable,” so you don’t often see clothes designed for that shape in stores. I think there is a pretty even distribution of different body shapes, but clothing manufacturers only make things for a certain shape, which is usually either small all over or large all over.
Obviously it would be impossible for every piece of clothing to fit every body type, or for every piece to have numerous iterations in order to fit every body type. So manufacturers just use the “average.” Not having to pay much attention to tailoring is also a way to save money, as more complicated designs cost more to produce. That’s why sack-like dresses with a belt take up way more rack space (at least in US stores) that dresses with more than two seams, or darts, or pricess seams, or what have you.
The reason I am so frustrated with this particular instance is that the Parfait by Affinitas brand specifically caters to large breasts, including women who have large breasts and a small waist. But ModCloth has cut out that swath of sizes EVEN THOUGH THEY’RE ALREADY BEING MANUFACTURED. It’d be as if they were selling a bra from Itty Bitty Bra, but only sold the B cups and left out A and AA. Why are they carrying brands known for fitting a particular size (one that’s mostly left out by mainstream manufacturers) if they’re not going to offer those sizes?
I also still find their complete lack of useful fitting information on the site to be incredibly lazy. What is the difference between US and UK sizes? And how hard would it be to include a second line in their “fitting chart” for the underbust measurement? Bra fitting is always guess and check, but there’s no way to even guess with the chart they currently provide.